Waiting for Posts to be Approved?

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:33 pm

Tried everything in game and via control panel to force it. Nothing works. FS Locked No Vsync and then Forcing it via control panel does get rid of some tearing however there IS still tearing going on. I can't get max image quality.

Is this engine designed to use a windowed rendering environment? I can't play a game with VSYNC disabled the tearing just drives me nuts. I had to reload the game numerous times just trying to get VSYNC to work. I tried all the in game options and nothing works.

I'm kind of curious what all the different options are for. Did you try and design your own adaptive vsync via software? Is there a command line or config file I can edit to make sure this is disabled?

Also had some issues with NPC always targeting me. Does the game not have any aggro mechanics or does it just always target the player even if NPC are in combat? Carrier was not fighting back either. It just sat there letting a fighter shoot it indefinantly.

Seems like a good game though and I loved the com chatter much more than Freelancer. Adds a nice layer to the audio. Forum ate my real first post as it timed me out and logged me off so this is the even rougher shorter version heh.

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:33 pm

Well it's been hours now since I posted and still nobody to approve said post. I can only imagine how speedy the key delivery would be. Yawn Anyways is it just me or is there really no way to clear my current target? In X3TC all I have to do is hit T to deselect and turn off auto target.

Why in the world does this game not have such an option? Does nobody else find it extremely annoying to be constantly locking targets I care nothing about? I mean if I want to target them I will. If they are automatically targeted I should be able to deslect and disable until I retarget something. Something so simple missing from such a cool game. I mean escape could be that easy to deslect and untarget. Can this be modded or is it hard coded?

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:33 pm

Seriously how long does it take to post on this forum. If it's not one thing it's another over here. I've had several posts vanish entirely because the damn site logs me out in a few minutes and doesn't save my post. It's like using forums in the 90's. I haven't had to copy paste the body of my text in so long until today.

Now I sit here waiting for posts to be approved by someone who has not logged on in hours? Really a forum with hours of delay for posts to be approved? How long would it take to get a working cdkey if I ordered from this site? Seeing how there is mention of delays on the purchase screen itself and also users reporting lack or slow delivery of keys over on STEAM. Is one to expect this kind of service from this site and it's operators?

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:03 pm

OK I'm not a moderator, but here's what I can tell you:

A) I don't know about the technical problems you are having.

B) The whole site is run by 1 developer with the help of veteran players as moderators. Both have things like Real Life to deal with and Vice (the dev) has much of his time taken up by working the kinks out of the newly released expansion content.

Please be patient, you'll find this is a very good community and responses are usually prompt. There are times where you'll have to wait your turn to get an answer though.

C) The target ID system in the game is always on. The only real safety on your weapons system is to not pull the trigger.

Hope this helps for now.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:35 pm

Hello Malicar. Welcome to the game/sim and community-at-large. Not in the info chain for Vices' (this games' developer) dealings with the Steam admin peeps. I've read here in 4-um that it does take a bit from the time Vice sends the cd-keys and etc., for Steam to get off the stick and get things in gear for their "clients". Vice isn't the one responsible for Steams' distribution framework and policies. To my knowledge and experience, your posts or anyones', are not required to be "approved". As R-C stated above, the Evochron Universe - game and forum - is a 1-man shop. We've a few system administrators, moderators if you will, for the 4-um. These are all comprised of veteran players who really do try to help those in need. All of us/them do have real lives and issues aside from the game. But by and large, some one of them may have the handle on your game issues. If they can't help you, Vice is the Court-of-Last-Resort. If your game problems are such that you require answers immediately, please send an e-mail to Vice @ starwraith.com > contact. He's usually very prompt in responding.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:40 pm

The very first post from a new account has to be moderator approved. I believe that is what Malicar is talking about. Every one after is instant.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:29 pm

Hi Malicar, welcome to the game and forum!.....Hope to see you out there some time when you get it working!.....

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:19 am

Well thank you for the replies. I was trying to patiently wait to be approved however I've been dying to play this game more since I tried the demo and still had a few questions.

I did search the forum and found out that there is no way to de-slect targets. I also read some posts about VSYNC but none that actually really solved my problem. Shawn was nice enough to respond via email and get me approved so my STEAM question was already answered.

Now all I have to do is buy the game and resolve VSYNC issue and I'm golden. I spent most of my time in the demo tweaking to be honest. I kept reloading the Merc start as it spawns me by the station with alot of NPC around. It was a great place to test the VSYNC. At first i thought it was working fine. Then upon a restart I noticed all the icons were hitching around and not updating smoothly due to the tearing. So I fiddled again for some time and set it to FS Lock NO VSYNC then forced it via the Nvidia control panel. This helped as the icons were now smooth and no tearing was present in that section of the screen but I am still getting tearing or was until my timer expired.

Is anyone here an expert on VSYNC? I want to force it on fully. I don't ever want tearing even if the FPS drop below refresh so adaptive will not solve my issue. Is there any way via config file or something to force VSYNC into a normal ON state without trying any adaptive techniques?

Phew...

[Edited on 1-20-2013 by Malicar]

Post by **Vice** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:35 am

I'll offer some info and advice on the VSync issue:

In my opinion, one of the best explanations of VSync and ways to eliminate tearing was posted over on the HardOCP forum many years ago here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=928593

That post provides a concise explanation of VSync, the problem of tearing, and how to fix it on just about any system configuration. So I recommend it to anyone who might be interested in learning more about it. I'll post some basic details on tearing and eliminating it below.

Screen 'tearing' generally refers to the effect you see when part of the screen is updated at one point with another part of it updated at a different point when the frame is rendered. You will see a visual 'tear' in the scene when this happens, horizontally from one side of the screen to the other. And the scene will appear split along that line with part of it offset vertically from the rest of it. The greater the offset between FPS and monitor refresh, the greater the tear offset can be.

To reduce or eliminate the effect entirely, you need to 'synchronize' your video card's output with the refresh rate of your monitor. Simply enabling VSync or locking the framerate may not always work, since the two components can still have differences between them any time the FPS doesn't match the refresh rate of the monitor, higher or lower.

To solve the problem in both directions, triple buffering usually needs to be used in conjunction with enabling VSync. Otherwise, you may only solve the problem in one direction and not the other.

Just as there can be compromises with not using VSync (ie tearing), there can also be compromises with using it (potential for mouse/control input lag). So depending on your preferences for image quality and gameplay while also considering how applying such changes effect your system specifically, it's usually a matter of selecting a configuration to meet your goals. This is why most games include VSync options and display control panels offer others (including buffering options). It's not really a 'one size fits all' setup, one approach can work better for one player while the opposite is better for another.

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:23 am

That was a great article on VSYNC. I didn't actually know that is what the tripple buffer was for. However what if I have 60Hz refresh with double buffer and VSYNC enabled and I'm getting higher than 60 fps yet still experiencing tearing? Which I think is what I'm actually seeing. I need to fiddle a bit more see what I can come up with. Going to tripple check everything

Ok so yeah I just went into the game and made sure the FS LOCK No Vsync was selected. Force VSYNC is on in the Nvidia Control Panel. Refresh is locked at 59 since taken from Direct X and rounded down. Even with technically 59fps undocking from carrier on combat pilot start, the client is running 59 fps but still showing tearing. No loss in framerate is experienced however.

Previously I did try all the different options within the in game menu with the same results. It seems no matter what option I set it for on the 570 GTX, VSYNC is not taking effect. Tearing is always present and there is no noticable drop in fps.

In some games I use the in game setting, in others with problems I usually force it. Hope that helps. Is there a way to enable tripple buffer? I have 2.5GB DDR5 on this board.

[Edited on 1-20-2013 by Malicar]

Post by **Vice** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:39 am

If VSync is enabled in the game, your framerate should never go above 60, unless there may be something else that is overriding the game's VSync directive. In fact, depending on your system, you may find the FPS to switch down as described in that article to something like 45 or 30 FPS. If VSync is enabled in the display control panel, then I'm not sure on the FPS climbing above 60. But any time the FPS doesn't match the refresh rate perfectly, you can get tearing. So double buffering with a capped FPS may work while things move along at 60 FPS, but any time it drops below that (which can often happen in games at various scene detail levels), it could introduce tearing. Triple buffering with the game's 'Optimized (WM)' or 'Locked (FS)' mode (without 'No VSync' being displayed) may provide what you're after, although additional display control panel settings may be needed.

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:48 am

I updated my post above. It just seems like VSYNC is not taking effect that is the problem from what I can tell. Even when trying to force it manually. Performance is definantly not the issue and the client is not dropping to 30fps. It's actually running fine it just looks wierd when a tear runs over the ships or icons while they are in motion. Creates a stutter effect but fps is actually rock solid. I'm going to continue to fiddle with it and try some different resolutions.

Also just for reference Im using default Nvidia control panel settings aside from Maximum Performance and Single Display. I've been trying with application default VSYNC and I've also tried forcing it with various ingame settings.

[Edited on 1-20-2013 by Malicar]

Post by **Vice** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:55 am

Is there a way to enable tripple buffer? I have 2.5GB DDR5 on this board.

Yes:

Nvidia Control Panel > 3D Settings > Manage 3D Settings > Global Settings (tab) > Triple Buffering > Set to 'On' in drop down menu > Click on 'Apply'

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:17 am

So yeah if I run the Optimized mode my native desktop resolution is used I'm assuming. I noticed when I run it in Locked FS with or without VSYNC it takes the resolution from Direct X instead. I can notice this because one setting uses 60Hz and the other uses 59. Anyways with the in game option set to Opimized and Use Application default in control panel I still am not seeing VSYNC. Again it runs blazingly fast, I just can't get rid of the tearing. I also tried to force it on via control panel with the Optimized setting with the exact same result. I'm now going to switch over to tripple buffer via the control panel and see what happens.

With Optimized setting I can't seem to get a working VSYNC. Using tripple buffering definantly helps but only when set to Optimized No Vsync and then forcing it via the control panel. Still this setting does have a visible tearing effect but its hardly noticble.

However it does seem that Locked FS No Vsync and then Forcing it on via the control panel does indeed enable VSYNC without tripple buffer. I was just doing some more testing launching from the carrier and it did in fact seem to be working. Keeping my fingers crossed and going for a smoke before I really try and play now heh.

I could have sworn I had it working before and then when I tried one of the starts that had me near the station I was having the issue again. Maybe I'm just losing it

[Edited on 1-20-2013 by Malicar]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:10 am

Have you tried setting the Vsync in the NVidea Control panel to "Use the 3D application setting"

This forces the refresh rates to match, Refresh rates are in Hz and can be different than the rendering rate of Video games expressed in Frames Per Second fps, do not confuse these two!.

The above setting forces the Refresh rates to match what ever you choose in the game and should eliminate tearing!....Hope this helps!....

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:52 pm

From post: 156276, Topic: tid=10452, author=Maarschalk wrote:Hi Malicar, welcome to the game and forum!.....Hope to see you out there some time when you get it working!.....

I was out there mining some rocks in Sapphire last night. Looking forward to meeting some peeps online. Think I will jump in there now while this coffee is hot!

Malicar · Post by **Malicar** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:59 pm

I was wondering if someone could give me a tip about plotting jump points. After mining some roids in Sapphire which were not on the galactic plane I found myself double jumping everytime for the Z and Y Axis to sell the mats. Then I figured out how to bookmark my position to avoid the double jumps in each direction. My question now is. Is there a way to plot top view and rear view by holding a modifier key for quicker jumps? Like for example can I hold shift and plot a jump into the top view then plot another into the rear view?

zex · Post by **zex** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:05 pm

Here is a tip - you can interact with the objects on the nav map as long as the destination SY box has the same Y plane in it that you are trying to interact with. So if 1 is in that box, you can right click objects on SY=1.

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:38 pm

Normally, every object in a star system is on the same plane ... with the exception of one or two objects in Sapphire. So, once you have the SY coordinate set, you only need to pay attention to the Front View map. Right-clicking on your target. If you then find yourself looking at empty space ... that's when you need to re-check the Rear View.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:52 pm

I don't know if you managed to solve your Vsync issue, but I also noticed this when playing the Demo again (I just purchased a license today, after demo'ing the various games on and off for years).

There are several solutions, I'll go over the two most popular.
You need to get your hands on a tool called D3DOverrider. It comes with Rivatuner I believe, but you may be able to google for links people have put up of the copies from their own installations.

What it does is it runs in the system tray and monitors the system and when you start a game that you have a profile for (you simply Add a profile by clicking the + button and selecting the game exe) it will execute the options you have enabled.

There are only 3 options in D3DOverrider.
Application Detection level (some games bug out so different routines
are available to choose)

Force Vsync

Force Triple Buffering

I usually do just fine with low detection level and then force vsync + tripple buffering.

IT seemed to do the trick for Evochron in locked FS mode (which performs better for me).

Your other option is to use a Framerate limiting tool, such as MSI Afterburner. It's an overclocking app but you DON'T have to use that aspect. You can use it just for the Frame Limiting if you want.

What you do is cap your framerate where you want it and then play without Vsync. Some say it helps to change your refresh rate slightly as well. i.e change your resolution config in your video card options so it uses 58 or 59.9Hz instead of 60Hz or something like that. Then I think you set the cap at 60, or just below. Or I may have that backwards... I recommend Google to try and find more about this method as I don't use it myself.

Generally at 60Hz I find 45FPS - 50 FPS to be quite playable as long as it remains constant.

You can google around for using this method as well, if you like. Hopefully the info has helped you

[Edited on 1-31-2013 by Zach]

[Edited on 1-31-2013 by Zach]

Thomas_S · Post by **Thomas_S** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:33 pm

Hello I am a new E-M player !

I also have experienced some tearing issues, and after some tries, I managed to resolve this problem :

i7-2600k / gtx 560 ti / z68x / 8bg / win 7 / 1920x1200

-> E-M :
reduced screen depth to 1680 x 1050 (I am on a 16:10)
all settings at max
rendered universe
FS (Vsync enabled)

Nvidia control panel :
VSYNC adaptative
Thread optimisation ON
Triple buffering ON
Pre-render frames 4

I am playing with a thrustmaster joystick, no lag, no tearing !

I hope this could help you.