Combat seems kind of boring -- am I missing something?

TobyTheRobot · Post by **TobyTheRobot** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:27 am

Hi All,

I've been playing this game for a few days now. I've been enjoying it so far; I love the open-world space trader genre. But I hadn't been doing much combat.

I was able to scrape together a few million bucks doing platinum mining, and I dropped that money into loading up a combat ship. I've been taking navy combat missions.

Here's how every combat seems to go:

1. I jump to the spot of the conflict. There's like 7 enemy ships. I turn on inertial mode and coast at around 3000 speed toward the very edge of the cloud of enemies, intent on doing a pass toward the edge and maybe picking off a ship.

2. As soon as I get anywhere close, a fire hose of missiles comes at me. Every pass is entirely spent on picking off these missiles.

3. After about 6 or 7 minutes (and ~3-4 iterations of step 2), I get bored. I get closer to the ship cloud and decide to just go for taking out a ship so something interesting happens.

4. The missile flood comes. I fail to take down one of the missiles, draining most of my shields on one side.

5. I start getting hit by pulse fire and get disoriented by the shaking camera. Before I even know where I'm getting hit from, I'm dead.

What is the solution to this? It can't be "just keep passing at the edge of the enemy cloud picking off missiles until they run out," because that would be incredibly lame. Do I spam countermeasures? Is there something I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:40 am

Some pilots will tell you to just get good at shooting down missiles. They will tell you to never buy and install an auto-CM launcher. Then they will tell you they have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. Buy the bridge if you want. The choice is yours.

StormFaction · Post by **StormFaction** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:53 am

if you're going at 3000 speed the missiles shouldn't be fast enough to hit you, i'd focus more on knocking some hits on the nearest enemy, only shooting missiles if they get really close. also, a one two punch of a missile then cannon fire normally makes fast work of enemies

deMangler · Post by **deMangler** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:15 am

As a fellow new player, I recently have burst through this stage.
It was exactly like that for me, but now it is changing. I think it is about learning to rapidly prioritize targets on-the-fly.
I cannot explain it but it seems to come with experience and is very satisfying.
I am still dying a lot but I am starting to feel the buzz of effective situational awareness and having those 'use the force' periods that are coming more often.

countjimula · Post by **countjimula** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:55 am

One thing I have found very helpful is to click on the map right in front of your ship and make close passes with the nav marker just like you would a ship. With just a little bit of practice you will be able to keep just about the same distance while keeping the nav marker in your target area as you fly circles around it.

I personally do not use the Auto CM launcher, because I do not want to be in trouble when I do not have it. I find using CM manually does not use more, and I think it is more fun, but this is all just my opinion.

Some other pointers:

Keep IDS off for the most part so you can drift (but you can toggle it on and off as needed once you get some experience)

Set the inertia forward and reverse (comma and period keys) to the S and W keys

Learn what the circle on the HUD is telling you in relation to our direction

I like to use the behind the ship 3rd person view when dog fighting so I can use the position of my ship as a movement direction indicator.

With the keyboard set up as above I only use the a,s,d,w, spacebar, shift, and c key in battle.

I like having the laser and particle weapon each on a separate mouse key.

Here is a video someone else made showing how quickly someone can take out enemy AI fighters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O8IS0-xj-U

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:34 am

Well at 3000 missiles can't hit you for sure but it's so fast that you can't fire at a ship efficiently.
Your best speed should be between 1500 and 1700 heading to the sides of the nearest target.
Maybe you should redirect your energy from shields to weapons a bit. Remember that you must fire from side to side and behind only when your particle cannons are in range. Then when other ship 's shields are down, you can launch a missile.

As said Countjimula using inertial forward and backwards with the W and S keys is very convenient. With practice, you will learn to shorten your passes.

[Edited on 2-13-2012 by Munshine]

deMangler · Post by **deMangler** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:21 pm

From post: 130411, Topic: tid=8911, author=countjimula wrote:...Set the inertia forward and reverse (comma and period keys) to the S and W keys...

This made the biggest difference.
Thanks for the tip!

ausraider · Post by **ausraider** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:00 am

I didn't even use IF and IR keys - lol.
Just the Afterburner and IDS on/off -Throttle up/down - alot of gas.....

Thanks countjimula -
I'm going to try that now!
cool vid btw.

Ausraider

[Edited on 2-14-2012 by ausraider]

ausraider · Post by **ausraider** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:52 am

Man what a difference - Lol!
I can Coast away from them and spin round to track range, using the IF/IR keys to make sure they dont get too close, or too far away.
Its great being able to shoot down those missiles.

AusR

[Edited on 2-14-2012 by ausraider]

countjimula · Post by **countjimula** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:22 am

Another thing I do all the time in battle is hold the a or d key and press the spacebar (turn on IDS then off again). This has the same effect as turning IDS on without slowing down my strife speed. I almost never use the z and x keys in battle, so this is a good substitute.

As far as shooting down missiles I almost never do. The missiles are almost never where I want to point my nose (always going around to the side).

With AI I do fine, but I think it is safe to say that in PVP I am still really poor at it.

[Edited on 2-14-2012 by countjimula]

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:01 pm

From post: 130593, Topic: tid=8911, author=countjimula wrote: ...
As far as shooting down missiles I almost never do. The missiles are almost never where I want to point my nose (always going around to the side).

With AI I do fine, but I think it is safe to say that in PVP I am still really poor at it.

[Edited on 2-14-2012 by countjimula]

I agree. Didn't try pvp but must be fun watching players doing circles around themselves

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:06 pm

You should try PvP. It's great fun and the "dance" can be furious.

You'll improve your fighting skills a lot.

A fight between 2 equally skilled pilots are very interesting.
A lot of tactics/maneuvering is involved there!;)

Sir Warwick · Post by **Sir Warwick** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:44 pm

Another n00b here

I did a load of trading before starting military missions, so had a bucket load of money and probably every useful bit of combat equipment - including missile defence and auto CM.

Started the mission in what I think is the easiest war sector and combat hasnt beeen a problem.

I just avoid getting too much in middile of a furball and try to catch ships on the edges.

From my limited experience so far, I would say - do trade etc first (I traded and explored until I had about 140M) - and try to get all the gear you may want - x5 shields, recharger, weapons cooler and capacitor, missile defence etc, a decent beam weapon - cant remember what else Ive got install but all 8 hard points are used.

Then switch over to the entry level military scout frame - ie dont bother trying to do military missions in whatever civi frame you might have - it either wont be as agile or wont be as well shielded etc - most likely both.

Beyond that - the thought of doing hundreds of mission to get through enough of the military ranks to get the top ship is starting to become really tedious.

Currently only on a wraith and TBH Ive almost had enough of doing the same thing over and over another 400 or whatever times - Urrrrrrgh!

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:33 pm

Hi Sir Warwick, welcome to the game and forum!.....Hope to see you out there some time!.....

You have only to do a minimum of 150 missions or get 150 points in rank in a warzone to unlock all the military frames!....

[Edited on 2-16-2012 by Maarschalk]

Sir Warwick · Post by **Sir Warwick** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:19 am

From post: 130845, Topic: tid=8911, author=Maarschalk wrote:Hi Sir Warwick, welcome to the game and forum!.....Hope to see you out there some time!.....

You have only to do a minimum of 150 missions or get 150 points in rank in a warzone to unlock all the military frames!....

[Edited on 2-16-2012 by Maarschalk]

Thats a releif

I has assumed from the first few the frames went with the rank levels - 0, 6, 25, 50 etc or there abouts, so its need almost the same again to get to the evochs never mind the heavier ships.

That said, coming from X and freelancer - weapons wise I dont suppose there is anything to look forward to with erm.. more guns on it? (On class 8 particle and class 5 laser - cant remember the names of them).

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:19 am

Well, they all have a secret gun. The turret. But it requires a second pilot (making the turret gun an MP weapon only).

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:05 pm

From post: 130879, Topic: tid=8911, author=Marvin wrote: Well, they all have a secret gun. The turret. But it requires a second pilot (making the turret gun an MP weapon only).

Yum yum, that is interesting.....

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:40 pm

Yep, watch out if you see 2 pilots in a sector but only one of them in a ship the chances are the second one is the pilots gunner so your up against actually double the fire power, hopefully they will be friendly to you!. But watch out for your first encounter with clan [BA]....

:P:P:P:P:P

[Edited on 2-17-2012 by Maarschalk]

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:35 pm

PvP with real humans or Aliens (other then Vonari) and learn grasshopper!
The veterans of this game will help you.

Captain Cronic, Flash, Cindy, Rubber Chicken and I PvP each other almost every night. Get Team Speak and learn. This game is a blast Brother!

Raynor · Post by **Raynor** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:14 am

The thing is once you get good and have a good ship, combat even against 20 enemies is really easy but is it terribly exciting? Not that much once you've figured out how to fight properly. It's hardly challenging, and you do just spend your time turning in circles around the enemies and picking out those on the fringes of he enemies cluster while shooting down missiles or shooting out CM. Is the combat worse than any other space sims i've ever played? Not really either. Ideally i'd like a game that has less enemies but more challenging ones. The main problem is the fact that enemies will never be able to catch/hit you if you don't want them to which puts the control of the combat entirely in your own hands which is what makes it easy. If you could never be sure to be out of range form them because they could chase you efficiently and match your speed, then you'd have a challenge, but you'd also have to have far less enemies to make it possible to win fights that or the game would have to put more importance on having your own squadron and wingmen.

Nova_Solo · Post by **Nova_Solo** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:44 am

Greetings Sir warwick and welcome!

What I've found to be an expediant way to gain rank is to build your bank account, buy a bunch of fulcrums, and do Nav Waypoint missions. You gain 1 point of rank for every Nav Waypoint, and you can train yourself in knocking out all of the enemies in one shot, and picking off the straglers. It's expensive, but an effective means of gaining rank quickly. Yeah, it may bew considered an exploit, but if you don't mind any collateral damage then it's the way to go

Good Hunting!

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:04 am

"Welcome Aboard Sir Warwick"....

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:06 am

"Welcome Aboard TobytheRobot"....

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:52 pm

About the lack of challenge during combat after a time, the issue is with the programmed Ai which can't adapt to your tactics. It can't engage you in inertial mode as you do. Like said Raynor you have always the upper hand in combat. So the easy way to balance that is swarms of enemy ships which respawned from time to time like in many games.

Services of some Expert in AI would be required as it's an issue very hard to handle, I presume.

I would prefer also fewer enemy ships with different tactics like in Wing Commander but with the inertial mode.

Marcellus · Post by **Marcellus** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:58 pm

Don't worry about the AI, your gonna get that challenge when the expansion arrives lol.

:P