Arrow Ship Frame?

Ora · Post by **Ora** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:48 am

So I'm new to this. Bought Evochron Mercenary off Steam yesterday. Been having lots of fun with it. I'm having a problem now, though. I started in a Talon ship frame. Dunno if the starting ship is randomized at all or not, so I started with a Talon. I upgraded and played around with my Talon for the longest time. Two full days with nothing to do but play games, and this is the game I've been playing. I'd been saving up for a Pulsar ship frame when I noticed the Federation ship frames down near the bottom, and I chose an Arrow because it was cheap and had more maneuverability, more assembly resource points, and better armor, at the sacrifice of what seemed like a measly amount of speed. It was something like 30 or 40 MPS difference. I upgraded the wing system with the extra assembly resource points. Then I took it for a spin doing some military contracts, thinking I had just bought an upgrade. Much to my chagrin, I found that for some unknown reason I was suddenly unable to take hits like I could in my Talon. Enemy pilots that I LOLPWNT in my Talon would just light me up in two seconds flat and I was done. Nothing I could do about it. What's the deal with this Arrow? I thought it was supposed to be MORE durable than my Talon what with the higher armor rating. Not made of glass. I can't figure out what's going on here. I can't do anything that involves combat with this arrow without instantly exploding and I can't fathom why, seeing as every stat but the speed was an upgrade to the Talon. If anyone could shed some light on the subject, it would be much appreciated.

Flying Brick · Post by **Flying Brick** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:56 am

Hi Ora, and welcome!
I'm not sure why you're seeing this - there really is no significant difference between the Arrow and the Talon as far as sturdiness goes - they're both reaaaally fragile.
85 vs 90 armor doesn't really mean anything; the only two good things Arrow brings is some more agility (always nice), and the extra assembly.

I assume you've made sure you have the same equipment on Arrow that you had on Talon? All shield-related stuff especially?

Again, you should see no difference at all; the difference in armor is absolutely negligible. If anything, it should be easier for you since the Arrow is more maneuverable.

The starting ships are rather fragile for combat, I wouldn't try feats of strength in those, to be honest.

Also, perhaps the wing system is not the best use of those extra assembly points, in my opinion. The Arrow already is the most maneuverable ship in the game... and when it's so fragile, it would prolly benefit more from other things basides yet more agility...

Are you in the same areas as you used to be in the Talon? Because if you moved, it may be possible that you're now facing enemies in better ships, for example.

Don't get too frustrated, maybe try to make some money (not necessarily through combat missions), buy a stronger frame (more armor), put big shields on it, and you should definitely see an improvement.

Also, regarding base speed: that shouldn't matter much, since one can always use the IDS multiplier, which is on the 3rd page of keyboard/control customization.

Again, the starting ships aren't really meant for heavy combat, as you noticed yourself their armor is sorely lacking, and you can't put much stuff on them. I don't know why you were doing so much better in the Talon, though, assuming eq is the same, enemies are the same, and everything else as well.

Take it easy, don't get too frustrated, and have fun!

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:40 pm

Welcome aboard Ora! What F-B has written is rather to the point. Keep working at it, as it does get better with practise and time.

Ora · Post by **Ora** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:06 pm

From post: 125240, Topic: tid=8477, author=Flying Brick wrote:Hi Ora, and welcome!
I'm not sure why you're seeing this - there really is no significant difference between the Arrow and the Talon as far as sturdiness goes - they're both reaaaally fragile.
85 vs 90 armor doesn't really mean anything; the only two good things Arrow brings is some more agility (always nice), and the extra assembly.

I assume you've made sure you have the same equipment on Arrow that you had on Talon? All shield-related stuff especially?

Again, you should see no difference at all; the difference in armor is absolutely negligible. If anything, it should be easier for you since the Arrow is more maneuverable.

The starting ships are rather fragile for combat, I wouldn't try feats of strength in those, to be honest.

Also, perhaps the wing system is not the best use of those extra assembly points, in my opinion. The Arrow already is the most maneuverable ship in the game... and when it's so fragile, it would prolly benefit more from other things basides yet more agility...

Are you in the same areas as you used to be in the Talon? Because if you moved, it may be possible that you're now facing enemies in better ships, for example.

Don't get too frustrated, maybe try to make some money (not necessarily through combat missions), buy a stronger frame (more armor), put big shields on it, and you should definitely see an improvement.

Also, regarding base speed: that shouldn't matter much, since one can always use the IDS multiplier, which is on the 3rd page of keyboard/control customization.

Again, the starting ships aren't really meant for heavy combat, as you noticed yourself their armor is sorely lacking, and you can't put much stuff on them. I don't know why you were doing so much better in the Talon, though, assuming eq is the same, enemies are the same, and everything else as well.

Take it easy, don't get too frustrated, and have fun!

Hey, thanks for the response. I'd been operating in the Lambda system in my Talon and doing just fine at it until I upgraded to the Arrow. I didn't go anywhere else except for a quick run to the Sapphire system in search of a Repair Sys C3. I do a mixture of combat and mining, so you will see this reflected in my ship's design. My ship's stats are as follows:

Frame: Arrow
Engine: 3 (S: 611)
Shield: 3
Cargo Bay: 3
Fuel Tank: 800
Wing Sys: 3
Crew: 1
CM: 1 X 25
Hardpoints: 2

The equipment I have installed is as follows:

Weapons: Stalker Class 5 Particle Cannon
Metal-Vapor Class 2 Laser
2 Rockeye Class 3 Missiles

Equipment: 1. Mine/Tractor Beam
2. Shield Boost X3
3. Fulcrum Drive C3
4. Repair Sys C3

It should be noted that the only difference from this and my Talon is the wing system, the fact that I now have a repair system, and the frame itself. I hope this helps.

EDIT: So since I made this post, I earned enough money to upgrade to the Pulsar frame. Once I did that, I accepted a military contract to test my new ship's mettle. She takes a beating like a champ and I can win a fight where I am outclassed and outnumbered 3 to 1, just like I could in my Talon. I don't know what was up with that Arrow, it's almost like it has horrendously weaker shields than the Talon did. But I'm not using the Arrow anymore and everything is back the way it should be. That was certainly a strange experience.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by Ora]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:08 pm

Hi Ora, welcome to the game and forum...Hope to see you out there some time!....

Ora · Post by **Ora** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:40 pm

So I'm noticing a trend here. I just swapped out my Pulsar frame for a Scorpion frame, again thinking that the stats looked better. And once again as soon as I changed from an Alliance frame to a Federation frame I went from shields able to absorb enough damage to keep me alive in a dogfight vs. six enemies to shields that instantly melt away like butter and I can't survive even the most simple engagements beyond three or four hits from a particle cannon. The only conclusion I can reach is that the Federation ship frames offer a bit more armor and much greater maneuverability at the cost of weak shields. It would be nice if there were a stat somewhere in the game that would tell me this. Has anyone else noticed anything like this?

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:43 pm

From post: 125372, Topic: tid=8477, author=Ora wrote:It would be nice if there were a stat somewhere in the game that would tell me this.

There is. Somewhere. But, after SeeJay posted it to his website, I kind of lost track of where it was on the forum.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:45 pm

This is the link:

http://evochron.junholt.se/objectdescri ... object.htm

Ora · Post by **Ora** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:41 pm

That's nice, but it doesn't say anything about the Arrow or Scorpion having weaker shields. Every time I get a Federation ship frame my shields always suddenly and without good reason start melting away after one or two hits whereas when I have an Alliance frame, I can sit there and take loads of punishment before my ship quits on me.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:52 pm

It tells you about Armor Arrow Armor=90, Scorpion Armor=110 and the rest depends on which class shields you install and that depends on how you use your assembly points!.......So an Arrow with a higher class shield might be stronger then a Scorpion with a lower class shield!....So if you install a class 2 shield on an Arrow your strength of the Arrow will be Armor + Shield out put =90 + 300= 390. Now if you have a Scorpion with Class 1 Shield your strength of the Scorpion will be 110 + 150= 260. Just to give you an example....

Ora · Post by **Ora** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:33 am

I understand that, but I have had a Class 3 shield for a long time. The Class 3 shield has been a constant throughout this issue. So my shield has not been changing, only my ship frame has been changing. The Arrow and Scorpion get me torn apart like wet toilet paper whereas the Talon and Pulsar can take a pounding. Seeing as the two Federation ship frames have a higher armor values than the Talon and the Pulsar, I would have thought they would have given me increased survivability. Not decreased. The only thing I see happening when I use a Federation frame is my shields suddenly crap out after one hit when they don't in the Alliance frames. Maybe this is a bug or something. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:53 am

The difference is only 5 Armor points and since I think the Aliance ships are generaly built with better materials they might be stronger. I have noticed in general that I can take out Federation ships much faster then Aliance ships. But it also depends if you have shield boosters and how you manage your energy and power in combat!

It could be a bug that in the programming the 2 ship strengths got flipped between the Aliance and the Federation. I do not know!....

[Edited on 1-23-2012 by Maarschalk]

Ora · Post by **Ora** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:04 am

It just seems really odd that Federation ships would be so much more fragile than Alliance ships when the stats that they display aren't really all that different. Really strange.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:38 am

Shield Generators go up to class 10.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:46 am

From post: 125446, Topic: tid=8477, author=Ora wrote:It just seems really odd that Federation ships would be so much more fragile than Alliance ships when the stats that they display aren't really all that different. Really strange.

It could be related to the History that the Aliance was more actively involved in the War with the Vonari and where able to get some insight in Vonari technology and incorporated that technology in the Armor of the Aliance ships and kept it a secret so that it looks like the Aliance ships are more fragile! When you play the Game Arvoch Alliance you get some insight in the History of Evochrons factions of Federation and Aliance and the War with the Vonari.....

Angitherias · Post by **Angitherias** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:47 am

Could be part of the lore of the Evochron Universe, each side developed there tech a little different. Your observations are correct I think.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:51 am

It is. There's a Wiki that explains it all ... but I don't have the link handy.

Ora · Post by **Ora** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:23 pm

So everyone, I have a new question. Figured I'd post it here instead of making a new topic. I got a new type of particle cannon today. It's called an Eclipse Cannon. It's a class 6 cannon vs. my class 5 Stalker cannon. I bought it and tested it in some pretty heavy combat and it seemed to work just about as good as my old cannon. No noticeable difference. But here are the stats, and maybe you will see why I have pause in keeping this cannon.

Stalker Cannon:

Class 5 Cannon
Y: 70
C: 100
R 550

Eclipse Cannon:

Class 6 Cannon
Y: 50
C: 100
R: 540
Kinetic Force Weapon

I don't know what the significance of it being a "kinetic force weapon" is, but, as I said, I didn't notice much difference between the Stalker and the Eclipse in combat. It gives me pause because I am using a class 6 cannon that has 20 less yield than my class 5 cannon, and 10 less range. The only unknown is what it means for it to be a "kinetic force weapon". So, my fellow pilots, which one of these two cannons would you use?

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:25 pm

The kinetic is like getting slapped around by a baseball bat.

It's very hard to aim when you get hit by a kinetic weapon.

The best way to learn about weapons is to have another
Pilot hit you with some rounds and feel the effect
of every weapon.

[Edited on 2012-1-23 by SeeJay]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:53 pm

Yep, the best way to find out the effects is to be hit by one....There are lot of us who would love some target practice....

:P:P:P:P:P:P

Ora · Post by **Ora** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:06 am

Kinetic force weapons must be what the AIs hit me with all the time. I get knocked around like crazy every time an AI manages to hit me with a gun. It sure as heck doesn't seem to effect the AI's aiming though. If I go nose-to-nose with an enemy AI even if I get the first hit in their aim is always true whereas I get knocked all over the place and can't aim.

Angitherias · Post by **Angitherias** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:47 am

Sound like that is what they are using.