Immense, Intense, Awesome overall, but....

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:29 pm

Hello EM universe! I discovered this game a week or so ago and have been hooked ever since. I've played for a few hours in MP and was very impressed by the positive attitudes of the players I met. I've been puttering around Sapphire sector checking out the sights and taking on civilian missions in order to get upgrades. I've also taken the time to do the opening quest missions and moved on to Olympus. Like I said in this post title, I find this game to be Immense, Intense, and Awesome, but..... What's up with the AI? My first combat encounter was with a single hostile, and after getting firmly on its tail, it proceded to do nothing more than a nauseating spiral to the right. (Which oddly enough is what hostiles did in all of the freeware/demo versions I tried when they where in that situation). I then proceded to the first IMG combat mission which set me up with four enemies. While I admit I have alot of practice to do to be proficient at multi - ship combat, 4 ships ready to exhaust all their loadout as fast as possible in order to destroy you is a bit much for a Noob.

I've read many posts about this sort of thing and many responses have been about getting used to INERTIAL combat. All I've managed to do in INERTIAL mode is drift backwards to a point of either leaving the combat zone, or trying to change course and basically "Stalling" into a killing barrage. I've tried to not be to fast or to slow, but it's not working.

Many responses I have read in other posts said that MP is good for getting help completing quest missions. That's all well and good if I want to team up with another noob, and keep a datebook off when we both will be online. I could team with random players to do it... OR I could team with a diehard who's done every mission and knows where everything is. In which case I could sit back and take potshots at the enemy while he completes the quest for me.

Why not just post all the coordinates revealed by the quest here, forget about this whole "quest" thing, and go get one of those GORFburgers I've been reading about? (No, I don't want the coords. really.) I do want a good burger tho.

I'm not trying to come off as a troll. I just want to be able to do the quest as more of a personal journey.
I do plan on being active in MP and enjoying the community.
I also plan on keeping the quest as a SP experience for the sense of credibilty with myself as a EM pilot.
I would just like to see a bit more intuitiveness and surprise from the AI while having the opening stages of the quest not go from difficulty 1 to difficulty 50 at the first combat mission.

Any tips, comments or help would be appreciated. For now I think I'm gonna drift around Olympus sector and see how long I can stay alive...

Post by **Vice** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:29 pm

Combat can seem excessively difficult at first. However, you'll quickly catch on to the differences between this game and others you might be familiar with. The spiral you refer to is actually a way that they try to 'bait' you into following them. This gives their reinforcements/wingmen time to arrive and move in behind you for an attack. Try not to fall for this move and stay focused on prioritizing targets based on their inbound paths and utilize offset approach angles (to help avoid incoming gunfire and for counter-attacking). Just don't make the mistake of flying straight in at your targets with guns blazing. This arcade approach will generally result in failure and make you an easier target for the attacking ships.

Inertial tactics are helpful, but you can just focus on high speed strafing and evasion early on. You don't need to deal with fancy moves likely flying backwards or arcing your passes just yet, simply focus on the basics. And you can also counter-bait them into following you to get the optimal attack angle on them while also causing them to waste their secondary weapons (keep your distance and speed right and you can easily take out their incoming missiles with particle cannons). Then once they run out, they will be much easier targets to contend with.

Combat in this game just takes a little more planning and tactics to be successful. I posted some tips a while back that offer some additional advice and I've included those below:

- Try to pick off one hostile at a time in combat, avoid losing speed, and try to keep your distance on passes. Don't fly directly toward your targets, fly in at diagonal angles wide enough to avoid being hit by incoming gunfire and to give yourself more time to counter missiles. Not flying directly in toward hostile ships leaves you and your counter-measures more time to react to fast flying missiles.

- Watch the yellow inbound missile blips on the radar, turn away from them and then use counter-measures.

- Launch counter-measures early, then worry about fine tuning your tactics later on to avoid wasting them. Start launching counter-measures when the distance bar is still pretty long, then hold the counter-measure key/button down until you hear the missile explode. Work on distance timing from there.

- CM's work best when you turn away from the missile entirely and launch them behind you, putting the CM's between you and the missile. Otherwise, if you're between the missile and the CM's, you're the closest target and the CM's won't be close enough to inflict enough damage on the missile.

- Don't fly slow. It gives your enemy more time to obtain a missile lock at a longer range. They will often fire more missiles at you if you're slow and don't move around much.

- Don't fly in a straight line for very long, vary your flight path frequently to make it more difficult for your opponent(s) to obtain a missile lock.

- If you're struggling with counter-measures, just shoot down incoming missiles until you improve your abilities.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:32 pm

Hello Rubber Chicken, Welcome to the forum and the Sim. Have fun and hope to see you in "Multi-Player" sometime.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:19 pm

Thanks for such a Quick response. The info Vice provided was very helpful and I've managed to make progress.
The explanation of why the enemy behaves the way it does when "cornered" has given me a new perspective on how
the AI is more "inelligent" than I originally took it for.

Part of the problem I had was that I was in the middle of a massively disorienting head cold when I took on the
mission, and was unable to maintain "situational awareness" while being in an easily frustratable state of mind.
No excuse for "ranting" though. Thanks for humoring me and handling my post with a very dignified candor.

I switched my joystick hat to strafe mode, which helped greatly. I do however already miss the ability to pan around
my cockpit. Can anyone recomend a decent, economical, add-on controller that I can assign the strafe function to so I
can regain my pan funtion?

Once again, Thank You. I am so glad I found this game.
It is trully unique. See you amongts the stars!

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:14 pm

I use the arrow keys for thrusters and keep the HAT for panning. Works fine and cheaper than buying a more expensive joystick.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:04 pm

Hi Rubber Chicken, welcome to the game and forum.....Hope to see you out there some time when you decide to venture out into MP,,,,,,,;):P

mikeuk · Post by **mikeuk** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:11 pm

Welcome Rubber Chicken

the more you play the better you get

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:15 pm

Thanks for the advice Marvin. All input is valued for sure.

I'm willing to shell out a little extra dough though. I was thinking of some sort of left-hand controller but maybe a little more specialized than your standard throttle handle. Anybody have anything in mind if such a thing exists? And does anybody know what the price range might be? (East Coast U.S. or Online?)

BTW I saw your screenshots in the "Things I'd Like To See" thread. That cockpit is awesome. I like the look and hud layout. Where'd you get it?

*Never mind found it!!*

[Edited on 11-17-2011 by Rubber Chicken]

Post by **DaveK** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:21 pm

Don't worry about been given too much help. You can specify what you want to know and the depth of answer you want.

If I'm explaining something I always ask first whether the pilot wants the full answer or just hints or just answers to the questions asked

I hope to see you in MP soon

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:58 am

Hello Rubber Chicken. While I don't know of any specific left-hand controllers, Saitek makes a few models that can be used quite comfortably with the left hand.
Just go to Saitek.com and see what they have.

Wasp89 · Post by **Wasp89** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:06 am

Hello,

I picked up a cheap ambidexterous logitech joystick from Best Buy a few years back for about $30. It had been collecting dust because when I purchased it I didn't realize that it lacked a yaw axis. Now I use it in my left hand for strafing with the afterburner bound to the trigger.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:30 am

That might be a good solution, Wasp. I was looking around online last nite, and was considering trying one of those gamepads with the mini-stick at your thumb and the assignable keys at your fingertips. That might be overkill for what I'm trying to accomplish though. Your suggestion seems more realistic. I'm currently using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.
I'm satisfied with it for the roughly $35 I spent on it. Kinda don't want to spend $65+ for an accesory controller. I'll keep searching and I'm sure I'll find something. Thanx for the advice.

[Edited on 11-19-2011 by Rubber Chicken]

Wasp89 · Post by **Wasp89** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:47 am

Rubber Chicken, I use the exact same controller in my right hand, and I use a Logitech Attack 3 for the left.

zonaiko · Post by **zonaiko** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:42 am

Hello, Rubber Chicken!

First of all, very well-written and explained post. I didn't think it was ranting at all. I'm also very new to this game, and I experienced/am still experiencing the same frustrations you were/are.

It seems like everyone covered the topic very well, but I figured I'd throw in my two cents since everything you posted was EXACTLY what happened to me. I mean, right on the dot.

I've found my tactics to be quite different when flying solo versus with some friendly flyers in MP. So I'll jump into solo tactics, with the assumption that I'm approaching 4 hostiles. (And I'm not trying to protect a capital ship. I hate those.)

My first mistake was sucking and getting blown up immediately.

After I got over that, my next mistake was having way too much forward velocity coming into the fight, which produced that "yo-yo" effect that you described. I was holding down afterburner way too much. So here's about where I'm at now, and it's been working pretty well.

As I approach the 4 hostiles, I fly in at around 1000 - 1200 speed on my first pass. I imagine a 3D bubble encompassing all the ships, and I target a guy on one of the perimeters. If I fly into that "bubble," I usually get pounded. As I'm approaching, I switch to inertial, and I use strafe and vertical thrusters to send my ship flying toward the outskirts of that bubble, on the side my target is.

At this point, if any missiles come in at me, they're my first priority. I don't trust CMs that much, and I generally prefer to shoot them down. If that's the case, I'll give myself some increased thrust to the side, away from the ships, to give myself time to shoot them down. If I have enough time as they pass I also lay into my target.

I let myself drift backwards a little as they pass to watch them and give myself enough space to use thrusters to get me back up to flight speed toward their direction. If my target is still on the perimeter, I fly toward that side.

This entire time, I always keep on the lookout for more inbound hostiles. I usually keep my target to the general overview that shows all ships in range (default key "G").

Usually by my second pass, I've at least taken down one. I repeat the process.

As I whittle down their numbers, instead of just flying by them on the next pass, I use reverse thrusters as my target passes me, them forward thrusters as I swivel around to get on his rear. This is where I gotta be careful, because for a few seconds while reversing directions, I'm pretty vulnerable. So I watch out for the other ships.

Once I get down to two ships, I can usually engage IDS and get on someone's rear to take him down. If his cohorts get on me, I'll go to inertial, swing my view around toward them (they're usually behind me), and begin immediately strafing while I fire. He'll pass me if I don't kill him, and I can either try to follow him, or re-engage my other target. At this point, it becomes up-close dog-fighting.

I always watch for missiles and have to adjust accordingly. And if I get too hurt during the dog-fighting part, I get out and evade for a while for my repair systems to do their stuff. Also, I always remember to watch my shields and adjust power/equalize power as needed. (By the way, you'll want the C3 Repair Systems, or whatever they're called. Life-saver.)

Of course, there's a lot of adjusting due to the situation, but that's usually kind of how it pans out for me.

When flying with buddies, it's way different. Since the hostiles will be coming at you and your friends, they don't stay grouped. It's all about situational awareness at that point, especially because it seems more random hostiles jump in when I'm playing with others.

I recommend whatever the veterans tell ya. But for me, I just keep my targeting system to the overview mode, try not to let someone sneak up on me from behind, and always keep moving.

Hope that helps.

Welcome to the game!

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:44 am

Hello Zonaiko,

Thanks for your response. I've been practicing since my main post, and have learned pretty much what you said is true.
I've managed to pass that mission and the following escort mission (even though I totally lost track of my "client" ship, it still made it to the jump point).

I too, prefer to pick off missles with guns, only using CMs when my proximity alarm goes off and the distance indicator turns red.

As far as 1v1 or 1v2 goes for me, staying Inertial is a Turkey Shoot (no pun intended):). I just drift by using my Ice Spear with Cannon Relay and they're pretty much goners.

I agree the target range list is very useful.
I've also found in inertial combat that being aware of what the little blue directional indicator box is doing can be the key to high velocity course changes without losing your overall speed or position advantage. I currently have my hat control on my joystick set to strafe which is working for me so far. I am currently exploring options to get my pan view function back without reverting to using the keyboard for strafe controls.

The C3 repair module IS as you said a life saver. So is getting a hold of a decent class Shield Booster.

I've also found the Fuel converter and have a general idea of how to use it. That and a 1200 fuel tank and I'm confident I can fly ANYWHERE in the universe. (Provided of course I don't end up in a combat situation beyond my skill level.)

As far as what I really meant about "ranting" - looking back on it- was: Thank you Vice for responding to my post with an actual Reponse to my post. - not just a template response of "Hey Noob, why don't you RTFM (Read The Freackin' Manual) until you get it, then try? Atta boy!" (Slap on the shoulder) "Off you go! Don't get killed!!"

I'm sure after dealing with many,many, noobs who have the same concerns - and differently concepts of diplomacy- it can be tempting. But no! An actual Personalized response! Much better than some other forums I've been in. For sure.

With my recent activity on the forum, AND my tag, I'm sure many players are asking "Who is this Rubber Chicken guy?" and "Exactly how far can I stretch a rubber chicken's neck before his ship goes boom?" I plan on joining MP soon and we can all find out the latter question together!;)

Starbuck · Post by **Starbuck** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:34 am

welcome to the game rubber chicken and zonaiko. hope to see you out there soon . aways there to help...

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:31 am

After practice I've been doing better. (Thanxs All

. I've got a new Question. In the quest I've been directed to Sierra. I've been warned the place is very hostile. Upon arriving at the station (which is surrounded by an entire hostile fleet) I find myself being killed before I can read the quest message that pops up much less accept the mission and run for my life. I understand that stations offer no protection unless you buy the station licence (I can't even enter the station). Is this a "buy the licence or else" situation?

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:39 am

Try jumping into the sector but not near the station. Wait awhile and the hostiles might come to you. Then jump to the station and get the contract. Or log on to a server and ask for backup ... somebody to assist with the contract. Also, keep in mind that you can do a quick dock then exit at warp speed ... the message will still be in Chat and you can then read it in the safety of empty space.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:42 am

Will give that a try. Thanx!;)

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:30 am

You can also enter the station after you dock. This gives you protection from the reds and you can still select missions and other functions. After you are done just launch from station and warp away.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:47 pm

I read that in another forum. I tried to enter the station before I sent my help me post. Clicked the button many times. Are you denied entry if there are incoming missiles? (There were ALOT of them!)

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:17 pm

From post: 120144, Topic: tid=8152, author=Rubber Chicken wrote:I read that in another forum. I tried to enter the station before I sent my help me post. Clicked the button many times. Are you denied entry if there are incoming missiles? (There were ALOT of them!)

Hummm, not that I know of. Never had that happen so hope it won't happen to you again:D.

As a though in hind sight, was it at a station that required a docking fee? If so you can't dock or enter until you pay.

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by thetiebers]

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:58 pm

From post: 120147, Topic: tid=8152, author=thetiebers wrote:As a though in hind sight, was it at a station that required a docking fee? If so you can't dock or enter until you pay.

If it's a hostile system, you can bet that's the case. So try paying and docking as fast as possilbe. Worst case, you get blown up and get your fee back.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:51 pm

Nope, I was completely in the docking bay, with the station tractor beam locked on and the inventory screen open when I was destroyed. There was no docking fee.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:10 pm

From post: 120158, Topic: tid=8152, author=Rubber Chicken wrote:I was completely in the docking bay, with the station tractor beam locked on and the inventory screen open when I was destroyed.

That would be akin to parking in the driveway. You need to enter the garage.